Carol Reitz: The theme of the Memorial is Nidoto Nai Yoni, which means let it not happen again. Anna Brones (Narration): This is Carol Reitz. She's a third generation Japanese American and the President of the Bainbridge Island Japanese American Community on Bainbridge Island in Washington state. Carol Reitz: So the idea is, by learning about our history, we hopefully don't repeat it And knowing what we can do to possibly prevent it from happening again, because in 1942, there were no groups protesting. There's nobody standing up for the rights of the Japanese Americans who were being violated at the time. [Music comes in, informative and serious] Anna Brones (Narration): Under Executive Order 9066 signed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt, some 120,000 people were removed and incarcerated in American concentration camps, simply because of their race. Bainbridge Island was designated as the first exclusion area in the country, and the 276 Japanese Americans there were exiled from their home. On March 30, 1942, the majority of them boarded a ferry to the mainland. An uncertain future lay before them. [Music stings out] Anna Brones (Narration): Carol was a part of the committee that my husband Luc and I collaborated with to create a public art installation to help memorialize the site. Carol Reitz: More than once people have come away with tears in their eyes. Everyone mentions the footprints, how powerful that is. [Theme Music comes in] Anna Brones (Narration): As I tour the art installation and site of the displacement with Carol, I smell the salty air and take in the sight of sailboats. It’s surreal to think that this happened here. And how easy it could be for it to happen again. As it is, it is all too common for us to mark our fellow human beings as “other” rather than embracing our shared humanity. So for this episode I'm asking: how do we connect with each other? And can art help us form a bridge? Anna Brones (Narration): To be creative is to be human. And exploring that drive might just help us understand ourselves better. I’m Anna Brones and this is Creative Fuel. [Theme music ends] Act I - Defining empathy Dr. Sara Konrath: We're in a really polarized time right now in the US. But I still think we have common humanity. We have experiences like across those values divides, that we can focus on if we want to. Anna Brones (Narration): This is Dr. Sara Konrath, a social psychologist who directs the Interdisciplinary Program on Empathy and Altruism Research at Indiana University. In other words, she's an empathy scientist. I reached out to her to better understand how empathy works. Sara highlights two main categories: cognitive and emotional. [Music comes in - informative] Dr. Sara Konrath: There are still big conceptual distinctions that we make between cognitive forms of empathy. Like, trying to understand somebody in some way, whether you're just trying to imagine what they're going through or you're working really hard to listen and observe their body language and it's basically effortful, right? You're leaning in, you're thinking you're working and then there's emotional empathy. And there are some forms that are more beneficial for the self and for other people. The most beneficial form is the feeling of compassion. it's often just automatic feeling that just is there when you see people in need. Compassion can understand where the other person is basically with a healthy boundary between the two people. [Music stings out] Anna Brones (Narration): For a long time, researchers believed that our empathy levels were hardwired – set at birth. The thought was that some of us had more empathy than others and that was that. Which is pretty bleak! Thankfully, recent research has shown that we can work at building empathy. Anna Brones: So it seems to me then that the emotional empathy, that thing where we sort of feel compassion for someone, that's the thing we already have with us. And that the cognitive empathy is perhaps something that we can work more at and then maybe in doing so, does it then trigger more emotional empathy? Dr. Sara Konrath: Yeah. You should teach my classes. You can see very young children show compassion. But of course, young children have a hard time, really like parsing out what's this person thinking and feeling because they have to be able to understand that the person has different like desires in them and different experiences. And that starts to develop over time. And it can develop for the rest of our lives. It's something we can all work on, even as we're older. and then that process of working hard and trying to empathize, treating it as something that we want to learn, it's worth it. I think learning empathy is essential to having a positive life. Anna Brones (Narration): Despite all the rewards, it can be difficult for many of us to develop cognitive empathy for people who are different from ourselves. Sara says it doesn't often come naturally. Dr. Sara Konrath: I think a lot of people maybe get upset and see it as problematic, but I just think that's just how empathy works. For biological reasons, that makes sense because if I have a baby and that baby's crying, I better take care of my baby first. But we have capacity to take care of other people's babies as well. Some people they're able to learn empathy really easily and then other people struggle with it. I think at a certain point, it comes down to choice. Motivation is such a big deal in this field. You have to want to right, and it's a mental exercise we have to just decide to do it. it's just that the thing is we don't want to often. Anna Brones (Narration): Empathy has a lot in common with creativity. They are both muscles we can flex and work on strengthening over time, if we decide to do it. Dr. Sara Konrath: After you work for a while, when you do a few pushups, they kind of get easier and your muscles get stronger and then you can do a lot more pushups and then that gets easier. I really think that's what empathy is like. You practice it over time. It gets easier. Then you can level up and do more challenging types of empathy. And there's always going to be an area to grow. There's always going to be someone in the world who challenges you and your challenges your empathy, or maybe I should just speak for myself and say that that's true for me. Anna Brones (Narration): Creativity just might be the key that helps us unlock our empathetic potential. Act II - Art/Creativity + Empathy [Music comes in, dreamy and expansive.] Kaywin Feldman: I've always been interested in the feeling and the concept of wonder what happens when we experience something that's bigger than ourselves. And I think often wonder enables us to feel empathy because it sort of opens us up we're ready for, an experience. We feel more connected to humanity. Anna Brones (Narration): This is Kaywin Feldman, Director of the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C. In 2018, she was selected as the first woman to hold the job in the museum’s 77 year history. But she might not have that role today if she hadn't been opened up by wonder as a young archeology student. Kaywin Feldman: I was a 21 year old traveling all by myself and experienced the highs and lows of humanity. And, it was Giotto's Scrovegni chapel in Padua, the frescos he painted in the 13th century that, really reminded me that I was part of a shared humanity and that, the experience of wonder and, you know, not realizing at the time, but of empathy, really connected and made me feel happier and, more optimistic about humanity despite everything that I'd been through in my travels. Anna Brones: Hmm. When you hear the word empathy, what, what comes to mind? Kaywin Feldman: I think about empathy as the ability to listen, actively to another human being, not, not passive hearing, but listening and through that process have a sensitivity or an understanding of their lived experience of their situation, of whatever they are feeling or going through. Anna Brones (Narration): It was this sense of connection and awe standing in the Scrovegni chapel that inspired Kaywin to switch her studies to art history. Anna Brones: What do you see as the relationship between art and empathy? Kaywin Feldman: We always like to point out that at the end of the 19th century, in the Western world, we really started to define the word empathy. I think humans have always been empathic, but of course it took a German to come up with a word for empathy, which came out of the visual arts. Um, the idea of ein fühlen, to feel into, and the idea was that an object or a work of art could help you as this mediator to understand another person. And I think that's still, very true today that it is often through human creations, that we do have greater empathy for other humans. Anna Brones: And why do you think that is? What is it that drives that, Kaywin Feldman: You know, I always use the phrase that art is the expression of what it is to be human. So whether it's a painting or an object, something that either you relate to, or maybe you don't relate to it, but it strikes some kind of curiosity. art was made by people. So, it then leads to curiosity and wanting to understand the person who created that work art. [Music In - Informative] Anna Brones (Narration): Before taking the role at the National Gallery of Art, Kaywin was the director of the Minneapolis Institute of Art, or MIA. There, she worked with a colleague to explore the ways in which art can bridge gaps between people. They created an Empathy and the Arts Think Tank. Empathy researcher Dr. Konrath was invited to attend in 2017, and had her own Scrovegni Chapel moment. [Music Out] Dr. Sara Konrath: It was an amazing time, like 15 different people setting aside time to focus on the topic of empathy in the arts. They were empathy. scientists, artists, museum, people, people from empathy and tech space, like virtual reality and Google. It was an epiphany. It blew my mind. And I came home from that trip and was so excited. Anna Brones (Narration): Sara and a PhD student channeled that excitement by launching a first of its kind study examining whether arts engagement was associated with empathy and pro social behaviors like giving and volunteering. Dr. Sara Konrath: Overall, we found that there was a relationship, people who engage with the arts, whether it was visual arts or whether it was, writing or reading literature or whether it was, the performing arts, were more empathic, and they're also more likely to do nice things for others. And since then, I've just been thinking about it more, writing about it more, and I'm just consolidating the research on this topic. Anna Brones (Narration): There’s power in encountering someone else’s perspective. Think about reading a book that involves characters whose lives and backgrounds are entirely different from your own. The arts, as Sara has written, have the power to be a great potential universalizer. Anna Brones: You wrote an article called Art as a Trojan Horse. Can you explain what you mean by that? Art as like the Trojan horse for empathy? Dr. Sara Konrath: Yeah. And I think that that's a good metaphor because of the issue of motivation, right? You have to want to empathize and, well, it's hard to want to empathize with certain groups, especially if you see them as different or not deserving of your empathy, but we'll go to the arts. Not because we want to grow in our empathy and become better people. We go to the arts because it's fun or interesting. So we're going there, doing our thing. And we’re getting these messages from people about their experiences. So I think art allows us to be exposed to a number of different perspectives. It kind of sneaks it in there. The end result I think is that we end up growing in our capacity to empathize. Act III - The importance of art museum curation (and adaptation) Anna Brones (Narration): Sara has written that “The arts are so pervasive in our lives that it would be difficult to say when we are engaging with them and when we are not." Which gives me a lot of hope for our empathetic potential. But it’s also the case that places that are overt containers for art, like museums, don’t necessarily inspire empathy across diverse groups of people. Dr. Sara Konrath: The curators, whoever's deciding what's going to be there, not surprisingly, the vast majority of content that is in more traditional spaces right now, and these places, most museums is white males. It continues to be still, but I think museums are becoming more aware of the limitations of only seeing one type of perspective, and are trying to open up their worlds to the public that they actually represent, which is very diverse and interesting and comes from many different backgrounds.. There is more discussion amongst museum directors lately about these issues related to race and ethnicity. Diversity inclusion, empathy is always central to those conversations because they involve listening and understanding. I think there's room for optimism, but unfortunately I think some museums are still in the place where they are almost like agents of inequality and polarization and protecting the status quo instead of what they could be. I'm hoping that there's more of a mass movement in the future. Anna Brones: Well, it's interesting because it makes me think too, we're talking about culture, which we all know is not a static thing. It's constantly changing and shifting. and that kind of makes me think of just as we're talking about empathy also that our empathy it's not just static, like it also is allowed to change. And then here institutions that for a long time have been set up, to sort of like, house these beautiful objects or, mark a moment in history. but what I hear you saying is that, that shouldn't come at the cost of not allowing for some movement and discussion that helps to contribute to that cultural change. Dr. Sara Konrath: Yeah. I think not all museums are receptive to it but I think the Black Lives Matter, demonstrations have been helping to increase awareness a little more, that this is the time now to start thinking about museums, as you know, not just these, repositories of sacred objects that we want to hold and to keep, but actually as, palaces for the people. And I take that term from Eric Klinenberg who writes about libraries. So libraries historically started off as very elite institutions and they were basically for rich white men, really women were excluded at first and people of color were also excluded from libraries. they were seen early on as institutions that just should hold books and protect books. But over time, libraries have become part of our social infrastructure in the sense that if you want to know what's happening in the community, go to your main branch of your library. You're going to find a public health worker, social workers. You're going to find people of all different backgrounds, racial backgrounds, ages. You know the community is going to be there because it's a free space and It's a welcoming space. And they've adapted that. Not only do they still keep the core mission of books, but they have moved with current times and they have really adapted to reflect the community. and I think museums could learn a lot from libraries. [Music transition] Anna Brones (Narration): As Director for the National Gallery of Art, Kaywin takes seriously her responsibility to curate art that will reflect the diversity of the United States. But she's had to be open to learning along her journey as well. An interaction at MIA comes to mind. Kaywin Feldman: I can relate an experience that I had there that really changed me. It opened my eyes. I was on a panel discussion at the museum. Crowded room talking about the museum's work in diversity, equity, inclusion, and access. and at the end, an African American woman, probably in her early thirties came up to me and she said, I appreciated your comments, but I have to tell you, when I came to the museum last week, I didn't have the experience you described. And she started to cry. Anna Brones (Narration): It's worth noting here, that Kaywin is in a position of power. And she could have reacted in a number of ways and still left the interaction in the same position. She could have gotten defensive. She could have brushed the woman off. But instead. Kaywin Feldman: She was on her way out. I listened to her, got her contact information and invited her to lunch the following week. , and I learned more and she and I went through the museum and. Through the experience. I realized that in many of our galleries, the total absence of references to people made it feel like the museum didn't have empathy. seeing through her eyes, I saw things that I. didn't see as an art historian. Anna Brones (Narration): The woman pointed out that in the American and European sections of the museum, there were people depicted in the art. But in places like the Islamic gallery, where humans aren't overtly depicted, the museum missed the opportunity to emphasize the humanity behind the art. Kaywin Feldman: We were empathic to the Europeans and Americans, but we weren't to other cultures. And she asked some questions, like, we did an exhibition about Somali artists from the community and it was three artists, a, octogenarian, um, a man in his sixties and a young woman in her, in her twenties, And she said, why don't you have images of the people so that we can understand, their different experiences. so, it was walking through the museum, through her eyes, that I had a better understanding of, how other people might experience the museum and how, if we are really about empathy, we need to do a better job of communicating about humanity. Anna Brones: As an art historian or as a director at a gallery or as a curator, I assume that there's probably certain norms or how things are done. I've never seen an artist photo on a label, for example,, but I'm. wondering when you think about the role that museums and institutions that feature artwork have played, how they're starting to shift to, to better accommodate, a larger, more inclusive group of people. Kaywin Feldman: Yeah, it's absolutely. What art museums are in the process of doing. It's difficult because historically we've had staff that have been almost entirely made up of, of white. individuals and, , it's hard for us to tell the stories, for example, the Somali experience, if you don't have somebody from Somalia on your staff or you know, as part of the curatorial process. And so, we're seeing increasingly in museums that sometimes the exhibition work isn't exclusively. The expertise of a trained art historian. It might also include the expertise of different lived experience, whether that's gender or age or race. It's a real journey for museums because that also involves humility. We've always been trained that the art expertise was the only thing needed in exhibition. And, it's this changing moment for museums to realize that you perhaps, often can make a better exhibition with different types of expertise, which goes back to the conversation of empathy, because it's about people with different lived experiences who can foster greater empathy for others. [Music transition] Dr. Sara Konrath: The view of empathy I have after all these years is that the most important thing about empathy is actually responsiveness. Anna Brones (Narration): Sara’s research findings support the need for flexibility on the part of those with power. Dr. Sara Konrath: So it's all about responding. the opposite of empathy. I, I'm less likely to think it's narcissism and I'm more likely to think that it's control. Anna Brones: What do you mean by that? Dr. Sara Konrath: I'm thinking this as a teacher, I'm teaching people, right. And people are all going through various situations. And the best thing I can do as a teacher is be aware of where, where they're at and sort of respond to each person as a human, being an individual human being, and think about all the different factors that are bringing them to where they are right now. And just be kind of tuned in and responding. but a lot of traditional style of teaching is just to be like, no, this is a syllabus. This is what we're doing. Here are my PowerPoints. You have to memorize this. and it's much more controlling. It's static. It doesn't change in response to the other person who's in front of it. Act IV - Bainbridge Island + the Importance of Listening Carol Reitz: when we think about what's happening at the borders and different places there are. Japanese Americans making sure that we're protesting against it because we wanna make sure that what happened to us doesn't happen to somebody else Anna Brones (Narration): I'm back with Carol at the Bainbridge Island Japanese American Exclusion Memorial. I asked her to describe the current memorial site and future plans. Carol Reitz: The main thing of course is the wall that contains the 276 names of the Japanese Americans that lived here on Bainbridge in 1942. That leads to the actual deck. And there's a pavilion that houses, uh, short history of why the Japanese ended up here on Bainbridge to begin with the big thing that's coming up, which is very exciting, is there will be fundraising started to put in an actual visitor center right now. There's just a temporary small trailer. So eventually, the visitor center will be built and then an amphitheater will connect the visitor center. With the pavilion, that's on the upper area of this site. So it'll be very exciting to actually have a place to allow people to reflect and learn a bit more. Anna Brones (Narration): As I mentioned earlier, my husband Luc and I worked with Carol and others to create a public art installation to memorialize the dock where those with Japanese heritage were taken away by ferry, and then later by train, to concentration camps in 1942. Carol Reitz: The key thing when you're working with anybody, is, are you listening to what the wants and needs are? Anna Brones (Narration): Listening was essential to understand what was wanted from the installation, and throughout this whole project I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about how to use art as a way not necessarily to tell the specifics of a story, but to help elicit an emotion in someone so that they have a better sense of understanding. Carol Reitz: When I see people behaving badly, No matter what it is, whether it's a Karen out there or whatever it is I'm encountering. My first thought was always what's wrong with you, but really that's the wrong question. The question needs to be what happened to you. So by understanding what created the person helps us be more empathetic in understanding. that comes from having those conversations and really understanding where they came from. We have to make sure we have the ability to come in contact with people who aren't just like us and don't agree with our own politics, but have a good process to have those conversations in which there's really good listening. Until we can do that as individuals to another individual, we don't have a choice of, or the ability to do that as a group of people. Anna Brones: And how do you think the art plays into that? Carol Reitz: Well, it can create the start of the discussion, for example. The discussions I'm having with people who visit this exclusion Memorial every day is a result of the fact that this exists, and people are wanting to come here. So that gives us an opening to have those discussions for them to ask us questions for us to share. And in that process, I also find out a lot about the people that are visiting. So it's not always a one way street. [Contemplative music comes in] Anna Brones: I'm walking onto. The deck, uh, which is where the original ferry dock was, Um, so the deck is not as long as the original ferry dock but it extends out and over the water. and so what we did was put in a piece of glass at the end. So as you walk towards the end, you don't know if you're gonna walk into the water or not. In an attempt to create that sense of fear that you might feel when you stand, on top of something tall or at the edge of a cliff. And then there's also these footprints, down on the deck and then they extend out past the glass. So there's these overlapping footsteps that extend farther, to represent people who continued on the journey that day. Anna Brones (Narration): As an artist, I sometimes wonder what the impact of what we create is. Sara reminded me if we take a step out and examine the drive and its many outputs, creativity really has the ability to cultivate empathy and so much more. Anna Brones: So with all of this research on empathy, art, creativity, do you feel hopeful or pessimistic about, us as humans Dr. Sara Konrath: I love human creativity. I think human creativity is pretty unlimited and we have a lot of very difficult problems in our world that looked like they're not solvable. And so I could be pessimistic and give up, or I could hope for the power of creativity. Conclusion Anna Brones (Narration): We share traits with every single human being on this planet. Yet we feel connected to some and not to others. And that disconnect, that ability to mark an ‘other’? It has extreme and dire consequences. But talking to Sara, knowing that empathy functions like a muscle feels hopeful to me, both as an artist and as a human. We all have the capacity to connect with each other, but we need to work at it. The research shows that art is an excellent catalyst for doing just that. Because whether or not we’re actively seeking it out, we’re surrounded by the arts - tv, film, books, music. Culture thrives and changes because of creativity, and we’re all impacted by it. But developing and strengthening our empathy requires intention. We have to choose to grow our empathy, and as we’ve learned, art can be a bridge. As Kaywin said, “art is the expression of what it is to be human.” Engaging with more art puts us in touch with more humanity. We can consume arts and media outside of our normal comfort zones, created by people who are different than us. We can be curators in our own lives, and we can engage with creative work that helps to challenge our own perceptions, help us to see someone else’s perspective. We can take an active role in going to more museums, memorials, public art installations. And when something causes us to feel something, we can make the choice to learn more. To deepen our understanding. As creators of art and consumers of art, we all have a responsibility: to listen. Thank you for listening to Creative Fuel, we’ll see you next time. Outro Anna Brones (Narration): This episode featured Carol Reitz, Dr. Sara Konrath, and Kaywin Feldman. Learn more about their work through the links in the show notes. Thanks to Big Cartel for empowering creatives and supporting season one of this show. Big Cartel provides you with an easy way to set up your own online shop. Learn more at Bigcartel.com. Creative Fuel is hosted and co-produced by me, Anna Brones. It’s co-produced and edited by Gale Straub. Theme music is by Cleod9 Music. Our next episode will be out in 2 weeks, and if you missed it - head to our feed to catch our last episode which asks: “Do we need newness for creativity?” Follow Creative Fuel on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts. We're still getting the word out, so if you could rate, review, and share with a friend it would be so appreciated. Head over to CreativeFuelCollective.com for more creative inspiration, prompts, online workshops and a robust creative community.