Creative Fuel E6: How Do We Slow Down? Anna Brones - Narration: These days, the afternoons are darker, the weather is a little gloomier, and our bodies are craving more sleep and rest. Yet we're heading into what's often a frenetic season. It's a time when we are pulled in all directions, with obligations and expectations, and even if we love the cozy, magic nature of this time of year it can feel, well... hectic. There are so many things to do, so many things to finish, so many things to manage, and whether or not you make a living as a creative, it can feel hard to find time to just be. Everything feels urgent right now besides our own wellbeing. In initially thinking up this episode, the last episode of our first season of Creative Fuel, I wanted to ask the question “how do we find rest?” It's a hard time of year, and I know that a lot of us are craving more restful moments. But when I started asking the people around me about their own habits for taking some creative rest, I realized that maybe I was being unrealistic with my question. There are so many systemic forces that are working against us, not just this time of year, but all around. A general work culture that's obsessed with productivity and the hustle, lack of support from the companies that want us to put in long hours, lack of universal healthcare, lack of policies that support families. You get the idea.... And these systemic issues? They're magnified for marginalized communities. All too often, the onus of rest is placed on the individual. If we're not able to get it, we're told, we must be doing something wrong. We must not be good at time management. So in wanting to end this season on a reflective note, and welcome some space for thinking about what it means to take a break and rest, I decided to reframe the question. So this episode, I’m asking - How do we slow down? How do we pause? Standard Intro Anna Brones - Narration: To be creative is to be human. And exploring that drive might just help us understand ourselves a little better. I’m Anna Brones and this is Creative Fuel. Act I - Antoinette Thomas Antoinette Thomas: Hi. Anna Brones: How are you today? Antoinette Thomas: I'm doing okay. How are you? Anna Brones: hanging in there… Anna Brones - Narration: This is Antoinette Thomas, professional illustrator. Antoinette Thomas: I started out mostly doing painting and wood burning. Then I transitioned into digital art once I was able to afford an iPad. I was at a residency, and the stipend allowed for it. So it was a lot quicker and the turnover was nice because I could work as fast as I was thinking. And yeah, it just kind of took off from there. Anna Brones - Narration: Today, Antoinette is known for her comic strip illustrations. They’re colorful, often funny, and always honest takes on life from her perspective — everything from the struggles of making it work as a creative to not wanting to get out of bed to the oppressive and insidious nature of white supremacy. Anna Brones: And do you work full time as an illustrator or do you juggle other things as well? Antoinette Thomas: I've been working for myself completely, probably since 2020 I think. Anna Brones: Congratulations. Antoinette Thomas: Thank you. It's so hard. I don't know how I'm here still. Anna Brones - Narration: Being a working artist is hard, between long hours, dealing with clients, uncertainty around cash flow, generating new ideas - not to mention running your own business and wearing all of the hats: marketing, salesperson, customer service, accountant, operations, the list goes on. If you’re like me, that never ending list is running through your head at 2AM, but I digress. This time of year, or the holidays, adds another layer of pressure for full time creatives. Antoinette Thomas: Well, like everyone else, I like to feel the niceties of comfort during the holiday season, So it's a fickle time because on one hand you could generate a lot of business. On the other hand, you could not. And I don't know what it is about the holiday season where it feels like I need to make a lot of money because after January people have resolutions. They now have budgets. They may not hire you as quickly as they would on a whim and maybe, you know, their company is taking a different turn, you know? So it almost feels like I need to be Miss Money Bags before New Year's hits because I don't know what will happen. . Anna Brones - Narration: I first came across Antoinette's work in an article that she wrote for Big Cartel, in which she referred to this time of year as "survival season" for small businesses. She created an illustration to go with it. The image description reads: A comic strip illustration of a small framed Black woman with short natural hair who is typing on a laptop. She’s surrounded by papers, a cellphone, writing materials, and a mug that says small business. A speech bubble above her indicates that she’s saying “If the algorithm doesn’t hate me and people order somewhat early, maybe my business will survive this season...Then I won’t have to pretend to be as efficient as a big corporation with thousands of employees and free shipping.” The woman has a hand up with two fingers crossed as she utters this to herself. Antoinette Thomas: The culmination of all the holidays and then the weather being as crappy as it is and the whole SAD season really. It hits me hard like in January, February, and maybe subconsciously I think I need to be monetarily prepared because it could be happening again, you know? Anna Brones: Mm. Antoinette Thomas: I do see with other freelancers that January, February can be where they take a dive, where business peters out. Knowing that and knowing how my body and maybe my emotional wellbeing changes with the seasons as well, maybe that's why it makes it seem more dire. Anna Brones: What does your creative process look like? Antoinette Thomas: Well, mine is a lot of writing a bunch of things that are interesting to me and then doing composition. So that would mean to place where I think the head or the body language is gonna be like in the most simplistic terms. And then from there I start to do some sketches and I pick up references. So depending on the project and what they're inspired by or what they want in there, I try to gather as many photos as possible, and then I sketch from there. It would all be great if I could streamline it digitally, but a lot of it has to be done by hand. And then I have to like take a picture of it and then trace it that way because I feel like the muscle memory from your hand does something different than when it's on an Apple, like, you know, just using a stylist. And then from there I do three drafts or so, and I draw a bunch. And then, yeah, that's more or less where the final comes from. Anna Brones - Narration: Antoinette works largely on commission, and her business necessitates staying active on social media. So there’s a lot of pressure there - holiday season or otherwise, which artists and small businesses of all kinds encounter when they are thinking about how to market themselves. Antoinette Thomas: It's a vicious cycle because if I want a break, then I don't get as many inquiries about work. No one's DMing me asking, you know, are you free for this project? However, if I'm constantly posting and doing all the things you're supposed to do, the work flows in. Engaging all the time is something I don't like doing because it's draining really. Anna Brones - Narration: If she’s not posting original content, then Antoinette needs to curate stories that appeal to her audience. And while sharing dry humor and creative work that appeals to her comes pretty easily, the kind of educational content that her followers look to her for as a Black artist is more taxing. In the wake of the George Floyd protests in June 2020, Antoinette saw her following explode. Antoinette Thomas: My Instagram came up in 2020. Where like, because of the protests, my profile was put up in a bunch of places. Basically, I blew up then. And so with that came a wave of people that expected all of this racial content to lead to their education on the things that they didn't know about. However, that entitlement, it feels like it's around the clock because it feels as though if I'm not teaching somebody something, then the likes aren't coming through. If I'm not trying to educate people on race, then they're checked out. Antoinette Thomas: They don't see why they're following you, you know, cuz they came, what is it to do the work? And if I am not providing that anymore, then what is the purpose? Like if I'm here to talk about my regular day struggles and all those things, and if I can't link it back to race, then it's not as interesting Anna Brones: Does that end up feeling like a hindrance to your art and your creative process? Antoinette Thomas: Oh hell yeah. So basically what it tells me is that I need to ride this provocative race train for as long as I can. And try to build a profile in a clientele using that because, fine, that's what my content is on Instagram, right. But what I get hired for are different things where it's like, I don't know, children's books or someone needs a cover for a podcast, that kind of thing. It's not necessarily race oriented, which is great. and so the idea would be to accumulate as much clientele to move away from it and be able to do my own thing without the worry or the ne necessity of creating controversial content to create engagement and get the followers. That would put me in a place where I can make money for myself in a way that, you know, matters. Anna Brones: Yeah, absolutely. When you, when you create that type of content, does that feel like it takes more emotional labor than other stuff? Antoinette Thomas: When I make it, it's very much I'm going through this or I see someone, something happening and I put it out and I'm like, you know what? This seems like it resonates with me. The issue is the people who repost it and comment. It's basically a lot of people trolling or just starting arguments, and how much of my time do I wanna dedicate to that, you know? yes, social media is something I signed up for, but I am not here to be poked and prodded for every little thing that I say in a way that makes you feel like you're less than a human, you know? Anna Brones - Narration: For Antoinette, this labor is layered on top of all the stress that comes with a freelance career. And she’s experienced multiple periods of burnout since taking her career full time. Antoinette Thomas: Everything seems to be due really around the same time period and it just feels like the deadlines are closing in. So I will pull in all nighter, maybe two, three days straight if that's what it takes. It just feels like everything's collapsing on you and that you know, you can barely see the work in front of you, let alone the meal that you have to make to eat. And then, shower, you have to change your clothing. Hygiene, and, and sleep…sleep is important, but when you're working, it feels like it really isn't until you have all your work done. Anna Brones - Narration: Usually by the time Antoinette gets to this point, it’s too late to avoid burnout. And it’s not her fault, or your fault if you struggle with this too. So much of this is out of our control, and a product of the culture we live in. Antoinette Thomas: It's an insidious system where we are constantly working for someone and then told if we don't work that we won't be happy, we won't be able to gain anything. Our money is like in the balance and…yeah, capitalism. I know it's a bigger explanation than that, but that's what it is. Anna Brones: I think, “Yeah, capitalism” could be the tagline, uh, for this episode. With that in mind, what's your vision for a more sustainable system that supports creative work? Antoinette Thomas: Okay, well, I can speak from like a Black artist perspective. It feels as though, even though I make certain numbers or achieve certain things, the reaches of where certain demographics go, it always seems to cap at a certain place. It just seems like the likes and the shares are not enough. it doesn't equate to dollars like it does for other. And it feels as though we need extra push. Like, I don't know. And you know, as a consumer myself, like, what do you want me to do? Pay your rent. It's asking a lot from the other person to do for you. And so what I wanna say is, maybe if people pitched you to certain brands or are more vocal about who they support, but I don't know if that would help either, because the opportunities could be easily skipped just by seeing your name. And then on the flip side of what creatives can do within community is to have one. So that would mean speaking and dealing with people who are creative and then also your own support system as it were. So your friends and family and things of that nature. So yeah, I think community would be the second best thing. Anna Brones: So even when it feels like we can't, how do we pause so that we can better invest in our creative work and our wellbeing? Antoinette Thomas: I feel like the best pause for me personally is when I get to speak to others, and reflect that way because, am I gonna say that I meditate? No, I don't. I take walks here and then, and even then I call somebody. So maybe get outside as they say, “touch some grass.” That would be good. but community comes to mind every single time. It's important to speak to someone. And not only when you have a problem, but just semi-regularly. Cause I know everyone's in their hermit age right now, and it just feels like you don't wanna talk to anybody. But it always feels better when you do. That's what I've found. Community, when you wanna pause and going outside when you want to pause. What else? I would say find some kind of restorative practice, but I don't have any, I mean, I think that's another conversation… Anna Brones: Yeah. Anna Brones - Narration: When we originally connected Antoinette said something that stuck with me. These tips or tricks about how to take care of ourselves don't always land well, because depending on our circumstances, we can't always put them into practice. It's like a corporation offering a free restorative yoga retreat for employees, but not doing anything to change pay structure or time off. All we're doing is putting a bandaid on a problem that requires so much structural change. That being said, especially when we work for ourselves, or we're trying to find pockets to ensure that we're focusing on our wellbeing, there are some tried and true ways to do that. One of them, as we have covered in previous episodes, is nature. Or as Antoinette says, “Go touch some grass.” Act II - Kenya Jackson-Saulters Anna Brones: Technology's supposed to make things easier, but it's always complicated, isn't it? Kenya Jackson-Saulters: I’m trying to tell you… Anna Brones: Nature's easier. Anna Brones - Narration: I got in touch with Kenya Jackson-Saulters, the co-founder and chief experience officer at Outdoor Journal Tour, or ODJT, a women’s wellness company. Of course, I would have rather planned to meet her for a walk, but she lives in Atlanta and I live in the Pacific Northwest, which requires the technology dance of doing a recorded interview. Anna Brones: Well, hello. Welcome. Kenya Jackson-Saulters: Hi. Thank you for having me. Anna Brones: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Thank you for saying, yes to being on here. Anna Brones - Narration: Kenya co-founded Outdoor Journal Tour with her wife Michelle back in 2015 after Kenya started frequenting outdoor spaces in the Atlanta area. I wanted to talk with Kenya because Outdoor Journal Tour takes a different, more accessible approach to self-care through group walks and activities in nature. They’ve also recently launched a nonprofit off their We Hike to Heal Initiative, which encourages women everywhere to step outside for their mental health. Kenya Jackson-Saulters: That became our big initiative, just getting women outside. And the difference that we offered was that we had our hikes and our outdoor activity be accompanied by some sort of mindfulness or wellness curriculum. And that at the time, to my knowledge, didn't exist. And so that's kind of what set us apart. Anna Brones: Yeah. And, were you tapped into, The impacts of nature on our wellbeing. Was that something that you were interested in beforehand or was that something that you kind of learned along the way? Kenya Jackson-Saulters: Not at all. I was a gym girl. I still am. And I think that's the reason why things took off so organically because I was having that. With everybody else. And I wanted to expose people. I was like, Hey, did y'all know you could go outside? Did you know that it feels good and smells good and it's good for you? And I was doing research along the way and then finding out like, oh, you know, psychologists actually will prescribe sun and fresh air and being outside between 10 and two when the sun is highest in the sky. Like that's an actual prescription for people dealing with mental health issues. And I had my experience with mental health issues for my whole life. And I didn't know about that. And so, it was super exciting for me and that enthusiasm of me learning and teaching at the same time is what I think, made the foundation of ODJT so strong because I was so excited about everything I was learning and I couldn't wait to share it with everybody I knew. Anna Brones - Narration: Nature offers a variety of benefits, for how we feel physically and emotionally. There's the emerging field of ecopsychology, looking at how our physical and mental wellbeing is inherently connected to ecology, and there is a growing body of research on how essential the natural world is for how we feel. It can help boost our mood, lower stress levels, and even help with our brain cognition. But even when you work in wellness like Kenya, when you know the science behind what makes you feel good, there are still times when you are stretched in all directions. Kenya Jackson-Saulters: This year, I do not feel like I'm slowing down as much as I want to. A lot of major projects that we have had in the works for months are just now starting to like come to fruition and so we are busier than we've ever been. And so how I feel at this time of year personally is like this deep desire to just shut everything down and just spend time with my family or just spend time thinking. So it's, it's interesting cuz those things are in direct conflict these days. Leads to quite a bit of anxiety, if I'm honest. Anna Brones: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, what do you, what do you do for that? I guess that's a big question, but… Kenya Jackson-Saulters: You know, there's commitments and you have to fulfill your commitments. And I'm always remembering my “why.” Like I recognize the fact that we're a wellness organization, so we put ourselves right. in the line of fire of supporting women through tough moments in their lives. Holidays are a very tough time for a lot of people, especially this year with the recession and so I'm mindful of the role that ODJT can play and does play in the lives of these women. And so that motivates me to do what I can do and what I've committed to do most of the time. But I can't lie and say that, there's a part of me that doesn't feel, a little bit like, wait, let's set a date. Let's shut this down December 15th so that we have a chance to rest and reset before the start of the year. You know? Anna Brones: Yeah, I mean, because you are facilitating that experience for other people to tap into taking care of themselves, but you also wanna be able to do that for your core team too. Kenya Jackson-Saulters: Yeah, definitely. Anna Brones: I'm just wondering if personally you've ever experienced a moment of burnout, where you kind of hit the wall, can't kind of move forward. Has that happened to you? Kenya Jackson-Saulters: Yeah. That feels very present, if I'm honest. It feels very present. I feel like I've never been to the point where I was so burned out that I couldn't continue, period. But I have been to the point recently where I can take days or hours to try to reset. Right. So, I had a call this morning at 11:00, also one at 1:45, one at 2:30, one at 4:00, and then one at 6:00. And then I have another meeting at 7:00. And so this morning I was like, yeah, the 11:00 isn't gonna happen. I'm sleeping, So I'll take those little moments. Just kind of give myself a little bit of extra time. But I think there's also this part of me, it's like waiting until December 15th when I know that I can actually slow down. Really? And I'm just like holding on until then. I hate to say that, but it's the truth. It's the truth. Anna Brones - Narration: This time of year for small business owners and creatives reminds me of finals in school - pouring all of your energy into writing papers and cramming for exams, only to get sick once you're finally off and it’s time to rest. It’s hard for that to feel like a sustainable model for doing work. But when we're up against so many systemic obstacles, what are the tools we can apply individually to help combat that intensity? One of the ways Kenya encourages others to take time for themselves is through her Nature Meditations Deck, which she released last year through Chronicle Books. Kenya Jackson-Saulters: One of the most beautiful things about this deck is that I wrote it during the pandemic, literally in the height of the pandemic, um, submitted at the end of 2020. And so trying to capture the essence of nature while literally not being able to get out as much as I could usually have gotten out, really pushed me creatively to try to make an experience that felt like you were outside even when you couldn't be. And I, I still think to this day that that's the reason why it's so strong. Anna Brones - Narration: The Nature Meditations deck is just what it sounds like - an illustrated deck of cards, and each card has a different prompt for you to contemplate. Like Kenya says, you can be anywhere when you do it. I could be in the middle of my messy studio, feeling overwhelmed, and pull a card to reset. Anna Brones: It's hard to pick a favorite, but if you had to pick a favorite, what would you pick? Kenya Jackson-Saulters: So I have a few favorites. But what I think is important is that literally every card is based on something that I experienced or did or thought about. Like there is a root to every card. So it's hard to pick a favorite favorite because I remember why I wrote each of them. But I do have one it's about embracing childhood. Oh, here it is: “Return to Joy.” So this is one of my favorite ones. Anna Brones: I'd love to have you read it. Kenya Jackson-Saulters: All right. I just pulled it and laid it down, like, and there it goes. Anna Brones: You're like, I got the benefit, but… Kenya Jackson-Saulters: So, um, my mom passed when I was young, when I was 12. And so that grows you up really quick and so every part of me, even in when I'm doing wellness work, there's a certain level of heaviness and I feel like sometimes maturity that I bring to things. And when I was writing this deck, I wanted to think about what nature was like when I was actually a kid, you know? And so it's called “Return to Joy.” Kenya Jackson-Saulters: And it says, “As children, nature was often the background of our most cherished memories. Hopscotch in the park with our friends, hide and go seek in the woods, or maybe a camping trip with family. As adults, however, we tend to see nature as a vehicle for contemplation and personal transformation. It's important to remember though, that it can also be a place to embrace play, fun and creativity. As you walk today, consider your earliest experience with the outdoor. What are your memories of enjoying yourself in the natural world? How can you bring youthful joy to your adult experiences in nature?” Anna Brones: I love that. And I mean, I think to what we were saying before too, that's applicable even if we're just sitting inside for the day, right? How do we apply that sense of playfulness and joy? Just anywhere I think a deck is interesting because it is a sort of element, you pull one and there's a tangible thing to think about or do. Were you thinking when you were writing it about, being really mindful about making things that were doable for people, who feel like their lives are really hectic and busy, like a lot of us feel? Kenya Jackson-Saulters: Yes, because, so one of the really beautiful things about the way that things came together and how they came together and when they came together was, by the time I started working on the deck, I had already had the business for four or five years. So we had been outside with women at that point. We were traveling all over the country. So we had been exposed to different fitness levels, different comfort levels. I liked being outside, but I don't like grass. I like rocks. I don't wanna go far. I don't want it to be too hot. So I was mindful of most of the ways that I had noticed my community accessing outdoor spaces and the ways in which I felt like it would be simple and easy to do it. Now, some of them are gonna push you, like there's one that talks about challenging yourself, but the ask there is just to challenge yourself. It doesn't tell you what to do. It just says, do something. Go a little bit further. If you used to go three miles, go three and a half. If you go. However many feet go a little bit more. Right. So we definitely were mindful of accessibility Anna Brones: Yeah. So one of the things I was thinking about when I was looking through this deck is that pulling a card sort of creates this moment of pause, and so I'd like to know what the word pause evokes for you. Kenya Jackson-Saulters: Pause feels like choice and opportunity to me. So before I got ready for this interview, I lit candles at my house. I lit some incense. I poured myself some water with a beautiful pineapple core in it. And that may have taken five minutes but it was something that I could do for myself that made me feel a little bit more present in the moment. And I think that that is my most consistent way of implementing pauses in my life. I’m just taking a few minutes here and there, to do something that I feel like fortifies me, that reminds me that I do have choices. I can control my environment. I can make things comfortable. I can make things smell the way I want. I can have delicious water because I'm going to be talking. That's what pause represents for me, because sometimes you don't have the luxury of taking two or three weeks or days. Sometimes you only have five or 10 minutes, but in those five or 10 minutes, you can be intentional about what you do and what you create, so that's, that's what it feels like to me. It feels like that moment of like, Hmm, I'm gonna like my favorite candle cause I got something fun to do. You know, that's what it feels like. Anna Brones: Yeah. That actually also gets me thinking about, Just how we experience outdoors in nature. And, you know, the idea that we don't all have the luxury of two weeks to go on an epic backpacking trip or whatever. And, where do you fit that experience in, in the five or 10 minutes that you have in the day? Uh, so I like that. I like that you said that, cuz that that resonates a lot. Music pause Anna Brones: So when it feels like we can't, when it feels absolutely impossible, how do we pause to invest in our wellbeing, but also our creativity and also our community? Kenya Jackson-Saulters: So I think we have to be mindful that you're never gonna get it, right? And that's a mindfulness technique, right? That is a reality that we just encourage people to accept. There is no end to the to-do list. There will always be more to do. And then here's the really horrible thing about being done when you're done. You're done, if you know what I mean. Right. If you stop having things to do, if you stop having new experiences to have, if you stop having an elevated desire, uh, to evolve, then, then you're done. And I don't think any of us really wanna be done . I think we wanna stay around a little bit more. Right. And so I think there's a moment when you just have to say, I'm gonna take, like I said, I'm gonna take five minutes. I can do that. Anna Brones: Yeah. Accepting that you can't do everything might feel kind of depressing or suffocating at the beginning, but then once you get past that, it's really freeing. Kenya Jackson-Saulters: You know what, no one's doing everything. And then I keep hearing these words, “A break to create,” which means this is probably gonna be a blog or something cuz it's been running through my head like crazy. I'm realizing that the world is changing rapidly all the time and so, If creatives, if we wanna remain relevant, we do have to pull back sometimes and take a little bit of time to allow what is new in us to come out, right? Like I'm not the same writer I was three years ago. I'm not the same coach I was three years ago. I'm not the same coach or writer I was at the top of this year. So it's like, Taking a break to say what is new in me that wants to come out, that I'm ignoring and not letting out because I'm focused on what I've been doing, which is cute. Maintain her, make sure she's working, but also figure out what's new that you want to do. I think so much of the frustration, especially as artists that we have, is all the ideas that we have going on and then having to be focused on something that feels like itt's over and I'm done with that. I'm somewhere else now. And so I wanna encourage artists to just take a break to create something, to just get whatever is new out of you so that you don't feel so frustrated and constipated. Cuz I think it's very easy to feel that way if you don't. Music transition Anna Brones - Narration: To rest does not necessarily mean to retreat. To live and engage in a creative life is to embrace the idea that everything we do fuels our creativity. How we look at the world around us, how we connect with others, what kind of art and media we consume, what conversations we have, how we move our bodies, how we make space for moments to breathe. As we wind down the year and look to what’s ahead, I hope that we’re able to do just that. This was the last episode of the first season of Creative Fuel. Thank you so much for joining in on this journey. When you’re an artist, or work in a creative field, it’s often assumed that you know about creativity and how it functions, because you’re engaged with it on a daily basis. But for the most part, creativity has mostly felt intuitive to me, it’s only recently that I started understanding the mechanisms behind it. Working on each episode this season has helped me to understand the roots of creative process in an entirely different, more concrete way. As we end this season, I hope that you too are thinking about the role and purpose of creativity in your own life and how you can better invest in it. We’re taking a little break, but there will be more to come down the line so we hope that you stay tuned and stick around here. In the meantime, if you liked this season, please share the podcast with a friend and be sure to sign up for the newsletter at creativefuelcollective.com. Outro/Credits Anna Brones - Narration: This episode featured Antoinette Thomas and Kenya Jackson-Saulters. Learn more about their work through the links in the show notes. We’re grateful to Big Cartel for supporting Season 1 of this show. With no hidden fees and no limit on your sales or your success, Big Cartel empowers others to share and sell their work. Open your own shop at bigcartel.com. Creative Fuel is hosted and co-produced by me, Anna Brones. It’s co-produced and edited by Gale Straub. Theme music is by Cleod9 Music. Follow Creative Fuel on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts. If you could rate, review, and share with a friend it would be so appreciated. Head over to CreativeFuelCollective.com for more creative inspiration, prompts, online workshops and a robust creative community.